From: Charles Briscoe-Smith <cpbs@debian.org>
  To  : niemann@cip.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de
  Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:41:18 +0100

Re: Do We Want KGI To Be The Standard? (Re: I'm back)

In article <199807300711.JAA07110@cip8.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de> you write:

>do 'Free License Hardliners' see a problem with this three-fold
>license? Is there any software out there that *has* such a license which
>basically states: use the license your OS came with, if it is a 'free' OS;
>otherwise use XXXX?

The only multiply-licenced software I've seen is that which has the dual
Artistic/GPL licence.  In general, any project should be requesting a
licence from its contributors for any substantial contribution, so you
could require a dual BSD/GPL licence for all patches if you decide to
go that route.

>The main problem that I see is that we want to make 
>*cross-platform kernel parts*.
>- if we have a BSDish license, the GNU/Linux crowd says *no*.

Not necessarily.  Apart from the advertising condition (which I would
suggest you don't use) the BSD licence is compatible with the GPL.  (See
below.)

>- if we have the GPL, the *BSD crowd says *never*.

Indeed.

>- if we have both, doesn't that contradict itself?

No.  You can licence your own software as many ways and/or to as many
different people as you like.  The licence is a transaction giving the
recipient the right to copy under certain conditions; it is associated
with the transfer from one person to another, not with the software
itself.  But you don't need both.  Read on...



Hello, GGI people!

I hope no one will mind me butting in here; I didn't write any of GGI,
but I would like to offer some advice nevertheless...  (Being a Debian
package maintainer, I have already had quite some dealings with copyright
licences, and know the Open Source Definition (in its original guise as
the Debian Free Software Guidelines) fairly well.)

(Note, though, that I'm not a lawyer, and this isn't legal advice.)

There are three main possibilities for a licence if you want to use an
existing one (and I would suggest that you do):

  - X-consortium/XFree86:

    The X licence is just about the most free licence there is, if you
    a looking from the point of view of the recipient of the software.
    It allows anyone to do anything with the code except remove the
    copyright notice, sue the author, or use the author's name to promote
    a product.

  - Berkeley:

    The BSD licence is similar to the X licence, but requires an
    acknowledgement statement to be included in any advertisement
    mentioning the software.

  - GPL:

    This GNU GPL is similar to the BSD and X licences, but requires
    changes to be clearly marked, and source code to be made available.
    It also doesn't allow relicencing under different terms or conditions.

(I've included the texts of the X and BSD licences below.)

As far as I can tell, your main objective is to get your software
used by as many people as you can, and to make it a de-facto standard,
and you're not worried that it might be incorporated into proprietary
operating systems.  In fact, if I understand right, you -want- SunOS,
Ultrix, HP/UX and the like to incorporate GGI.  The main advantage of
the GPL is that it prevents this, so there's no compelling reason for
you to use it.

One important point is that software subject to either the X or BSD
licences may be relicenced.  If someone makes changes, he can issue
a modified version with any additional licence conditions he wishes.
This makes it possible to incorporate code with an X-style licence into
either a GPLed program, or a BSD-licenced program.

However, it is not possible to incorporate BSD-licenced code into a
GPLed program, because of the advertising condition.  The GPL doesn't
allow additional restrictions over and above its own.  Thus the BSD
advertising condition and the GPL are incompatible, and programs derived
from both are not distributable.

Also, you should note that if you release your software under both a
BSD-style licence and the GPL, you may have problems incorporating other
people's code.  You would need to get all the patches you incorporate
licenced under either X-style terms, or both BSD and GPL.  However, your
contributors may only be willing to grant a GPL licence on the changes,
making it difficult to use those changes.

If you only issue original copies of the software using an X-style
licence, these problems may be reduced; I think that people are more
likely to grant X-style redistribution terms if the GPL is not mentioned.

The last thing I'll say is this:  If you are going to release a copy of
your software under an X-style licence, there is little point releasing
it under the GPL as well.  The X licence is strictly less restrictive
than the GPL, so X-licenced code can already be used as if it were GPLed,
and can be incorporated into GPLed programs.

I hope this clarifies some things, but do ask if you have questions;
I'll try to answer...

-- 
Charles Briscoe-Smith
White pages entry, with PGP key: <URL:http://alethea.ukc.ac.uk/wp?95cpb4>;
PGP public keyprint: 74 68 AB 2E 1C 60 22 94  B8 21 2D 01 DE 66 13 E2

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the texts of the X and Berkeley licences (several variants of
these licences being used):

  - X-consortium/XFree86:

      Copyright (C) 1996 X Consortium

      Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person
      obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation
      files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction,
      including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge,
      publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software,
      and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so,
      subject to the following conditions:

      The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be
      included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

      THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY
      KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE
      WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
      AND NONINFRINGEMENT.  IN NO EVENT SHALL THE X CONSORTIUM BE LIABLE
      FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF
      CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION
      WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

      Except as contained in this notice, the name of the X Consortium
      shall not be used in advertising or otherwise to promote the sale,
      use or other dealings in this Software without prior written
      authorization from the X Consortium.

      X Window System is a trademark of X Consortium, Inc.

  - Berkeley:

      Copyright (c) The Regents of the University of California.
      All rights reserved.

      Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
      modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
      are met:
      1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
         notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
      2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
         notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer
         in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the
         distribution.
      3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this
         software must display the following acknowledgement:
	      This product includes software developed by the University
	      of California, Berkeley and its contributors.
      4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its
         contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived
         from this software without specific prior written permission.

      THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS''
      AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED
      TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A
      PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED.  IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS
      OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
      SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT
      LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF
      USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND
      ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY,
      OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT
      OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
      OF SUCH DAMAGE.

End.